tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900910996765124811.post4525425370157743368..comments2023-02-16T06:44:31.766-08:00Comments on Daniel Barnett's Employment Law Archive: Should Employment Judges sit alone?Daniel Barnetthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18220625619507072144noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900910996765124811.post-10941507669991920102012-02-17T07:43:31.599-08:002012-02-17T07:43:31.599-08:00I am also a tribunal wing member and I agree with ...I am also a tribunal wing member and I agree with the comments made by Anonymous on 17 February. In my tribunal several wing members of both sides have an excellent knowledge of employment law - I have a law degree and have been an employment law consultant for almost 25 years. Several of the union wing members also have a wide knowledge of the law. Furthermore, we are provided with the IDS Briefs and handbooks to keep us up to date. The majority of our judges prefer to sit with wing members as we bring our experience of the industrial and commercial world and it is not unknown for them to be persuaded by our arguments to change their initial view of the case. I believe we would be a great loss to the system.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900910996765124811.post-39374586517690192002012-02-17T02:05:27.035-08:002012-02-17T02:05:27.035-08:00Daniel's comments are a mixture of guess and o...Daniel's comments are a mixture of guess and opinion. Firstly in 6 years of being a lay member I've never known the two lay members to out vote the judge on a decision. It must be very rare. Secondly in my experience lay members are often very knowledgeable about employment law - helped by web sites like this! Thirdly on cost, the payment to wing members on employment tribunals is the lowest paid to any UK tribunal members. Finally it is also a question of the perception of justice by the users. Getting rid of wing members wouldn't help this. Often judges have a poor understanding of workplace terms, culture and customs and practise. The wing members know the real world.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900910996765124811.post-26200806330514313662011-04-15T05:22:09.172-07:002011-04-15T05:22:09.172-07:00I'm delighted ACAS and the CBI support the use...I'm delighted ACAS and the CBI support the use of lay members in unfair dimissals. Also ACAS put paid to the media hype on soaring cases.(multiples excluded) More resources is needed,better training for ineffectual managers, more help for ACAS, and formal mediation. The proposals are essentially cost driven so i don't expect the politicians to listen.But we will see.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900910996765124811.post-10766083505475893072011-03-31T15:13:18.016-07:002011-03-31T15:13:18.016-07:00In a crucial and important press release today, AC...In a crucial and important press release today, ACAS have confirmed what most employment relations practitioners knew already, that lay members add valuable expertise and more importantly add balance to the unique tribunal process in UK.<br />They also confirmed that (equal pay multiple claims apart) there is no evidence that tribunal claims are soaring, in fact they have reduced by 14% on single claims year on year in last two years. <br />The coalition friendly media should report more accurately the facts. Acas also highlight that a culture of informal resolution and more management training is needed to prevent litigation, instead of jumping to compromise agreements to cover up poor management.<br />I am delighted the well respected and independent ACAS have backed the use of lay members in unfair dismissals and discrimination cases.Hopefully common sense will prevail.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900910996765124811.post-11326336296153208072011-02-26T08:29:36.394-08:002011-02-26T08:29:36.394-08:00On the face of it, it would appear that employment...On the face of it, it would appear that employment cases are decided solely by the chairman/judge <br /><br />However, who knows what goes on behind closed doors. I would assume that the other 2 judges provide valuable input based on the fact that they can observe the hearing and pick up on facts that may be missed by the chairman.<br /><br />I can see the financial argument, but A single chairman can only be a negative thing in the interests of justice.Employment Law Manchesterhttp://employment-law-manchester.co.uk/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900910996765124811.post-10906958019006701802011-02-17T06:02:21.102-08:002011-02-17T06:02:21.102-08:00Reasonableness needs to be judged in context and t...Reasonableness needs to be judged in context and the fact that wing members are included to assist that judgement it is an asset of the Employment Tribunal system; and there is a limitation where that context is not provided.<br /> <br />I contest the assertion that Wing members slow proceedings down to any significant extent. Indeed they often have a perceptive question to the claimant or respondent, questions that make that witness think more deeply. That can speed proceedings.<br /><br />Employers sometimes resent Employment Judges exercising great authority over how their business is managed without Judges having any responsibility for its success, or even survival. <br /><br />On the other side, claimants can be re-assured by the notion that one of the panel, at least, is likely to relate to their viewpoint.<br /><br />Removing Wing members may further irritate respondents and intimidate claimants. When the law is not felt fair then it is at risk.Malcolm Martinhttp://www.employersolutions.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900910996765124811.post-79741433705558550172011-02-08T11:11:09.298-08:002011-02-08T11:11:09.298-08:00I helped my son with two Disability claims because...I helped my son with two Disability claims because he felt that NHS Trusts did not incorporate the legislation in their recruitment processes.<br /> The quality of the wing members was disappointing. We presented a statistic which, in the Reasons, had been recalculated. I had a career in Business Research!<br /> Furthermore, they were clearly in thrall to the Consultants from the NHS, which is anyway, an organisation beyond criticism.<br /> I do believe that compulsory reference of cases to ACAS would be valuable for unrepresented Claimants. Neither Trust would agree to their involvement. The benefit would be a better appreciation of the merits of the case and the avoidance of lawyer's sharp tricks like late submission of Statements, meritless Costs warnings and failure of Disclosure.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900910996765124811.post-73408164983158963912011-02-08T06:27:21.762-08:002011-02-08T06:27:21.762-08:00One other factor to add to those which Daniel righ...One other factor to add to those which Daniel rightly identifies as causing delay - the promulgation of the decision of a Tribunal is significantly delayed, as the draft judgement has to be approved by all three members. Those of us well used to dealing with Tribunals will have a number of stories to recount about the delay from end of oral hearing to receipt of decision.Alan Lewishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05876148063556445229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900910996765124811.post-90604157871908448692011-02-03T15:56:52.274-08:002011-02-03T15:56:52.274-08:00I believe the proposals are politically driven by ...I believe the proposals are politically driven by a need to be seen to unburden employers and to save costs for the deficit reduction.Wing members provide protection for judges, a sounding board, and expert insight for judges, and give valuable insight into the real and current world of the workplace.<br />The fee is £174 not £194. The desire to reduce costs and numbers of tribunals can be achieved if employers invested more in their management training, which might also reduce turnover and sickness, which dwarf (£4 bill pa) the estimated £3m artifical savings for exempting wing members.<br />As a wing member,it is my experience that judges prefer to have wing members and that they do not slow down proceedings, but in fact add value to the process.The govt and employers would do better to focus on promoting healthier and less combative workplaces, which in turn would reduce the need to get into expensive litigation.Front end prevention (like health) is better than the cure. Compulsory workplace mediation would help but is not proposed.I am yet to see a vexatious/weak case, all of which are already filtered out by judges at pre-hearing. Acas will not cope with a deluge of claims, and further hold ups are inevitable.Wing members may disappear, but the huge problems wil not.(personal views)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4900910996765124811.post-77353122817832064332011-02-01T04:04:56.075-08:002011-02-01T04:04:56.075-08:00I can see the merits in your argument. But my conc...I can see the merits in your argument. But my concern is that a solicitor who has only ever worked in a legal office before becoming an Employment Judge will have no idea about the issues of how factories, offices, charities etc "work" and instead of dealing with the facts and circumstances of the case will employ an overly legalistic approach. It might work if employment judges were required to have had some commercial or industry background or were required to spend time there as part of their training.Simonhttp://www.ariadne-associates.co.uknoreply@blogger.com